Tháng Một 26, 2021

Leading & Thriving In Chaos: A Conversation With Robert Heath

Okay, we're recording.



So everybody Ithink knows me.

I'm Meredith Holley.

I am a lawyer and a life coach, and I helpemployees stop toxic work environments without putting their jobs.

And I want tointroduce everybody to my dear friend, Robert.

Robert, tell us about your company and what are you doing now.

All right, awesome.

First of all, I wanted to thank you, Meredith, for having me on.

Everyone, my name is Robert Heath, SR.

I'm the CEO of Legacy Leadership Consulting.

We are a leadershipdevelopment and executive coaching firm that specializes in helping leaders toget the best out of their people, no matter who they lead.

Specificallyfocusing on how to get your people to be more engaged, how to get your people totake more initiative, and how to get your people to think more like businessowners, more like leaders, instead of just staying within their boxes and playingby the so-called rules.

So, you're.



from our conversations, you're all aboutbringing the employees into your business and having them use all oftheir energy towards accomplishing what is necessary in the business withoutholding back.

And, partly, I wanted to talk to you, because I think–we were justtalking about–companies are in crisis because of a COVID right now.

Allof our business structures have been totally turned upside-down and then youadd, on top of that, the protests around police brutality and the current climatearound race issues.

How do we both be respectful and bring in diverse staff, like staff of all different races and genders and physical abilities, sexual orientation, that works? So, I feellike you're an expert at that and, particularly, at the leadership piece ofit.

And, I love what you do, so I just want everybody to know that you are resourceout there.

So, you were talking about three different ways that.



threedifferent problems, sort of, that people are facing right now, when we were talking.

Right, so yeah, I can go into that a little bit.

And, to give alittle kind of background on that, a little bit of my background.



I havemy Master's degree in teaching and I was a school teacher forsix years before I joined the Marine Corps and went to law school.

I was alawyer in the Marine Corps, I was a defense counsel.

I was also a CompanyCommander, so I went and studied leadership and I coached basketballduring that period of time.

And, there's a whole laundry list of other things thatwe've talked about before, right? I like to consider myself a career Renaissanceman.

Some people say I have career ADD.



we always start nerding-out when we starttalking about the law stuff because.



so Robert was on the opposite side of the law of what.



I always represented the victim in asexual assault case, the victim in a sexual harassment case and Robert hasthe opposite perspective, right? And, it was always interesting because I was adefense counsel and I was, I tried sexual assault cases, I tried drugcases, I tried a whole bunch of different cases, but I was also a Company Commander and a jujitsu instructor, where I focused on teaching women's self-defense, specifically for sexual assault/domestic violence cases.

So, it was interesting forme because I had seen the entire spectrum of the cases.

I've worked withvictim advocates, I've worked with witness advocates, I've worked withsurvivors and helped them through their journey, to recoup their sense of selfand sense of belonging.

Then, I've also been on the other side of the scenario.

And, it's the same thing, I think, in a lot of these cases.

I've had badbosses, I've had great bosses.

And, I went and studied leadership because of thefact that as a teacher one of the things that I got into teaching for was to help, to be a part of the system to change the future, right? I wanted to teach and I gotmy Bachelor's degree in Economics and Speech Communications.

I wanted to teach students how to understand money, how to understand how to be citizens in thesociety so they could actually make a better world.

I mean, it's sointeresting I think, right? Because I think both of us are always focused onmeeting people at the earliest place possible, when the problem is starting, because we've seen these disaster scenarios on both sides.


Because the system is not set up to deal properly with it and we have tothen understand how to insert ourselves.

And, so that that's a great segue becausethe point that we're dealing with right now, our current systems for dealing withemployee engagement, for dealing with diverse and inclusive organizations arevery poor with regard to how well people are trained to deal with things thatthey're not used to.

And, so to give you a perfect example: one of the programs thatwe teach is a program called “Thriving In Chaos.

” It's a program that a lot of myclients send their employees through to help them learn how to better managetheir time, how to set boundaries on their time and enforce boundaries ontheir time, and how to actually understand what living each day inaccordance with their purpose is.

And, the interesting thing about that is, giventhe pandemic we've had to deal with, there are so many people, right.



Gallup already put out the poll and I've talked about it all for the last year.

70 percent of US employees are disengaged at work.

So only 30 percent of employees are engaged.

Now, of that 70 percent that aredisengaged, another 14 percent of them are actively disengaged, they're activelylooking to go somewhere else, do something different, all the rest ofthat.

They're writing their resume on the work computer.

Exactly, exactly.

But, that was the case before COVID.

And, now, what you've seen is that people have been thrust into thefact, into the reality of, how much their work life is pulling away from theirfamily life, how much of their work life is pulling away from their ability to bethe parent, or the spouse, or the friend, or the sibling, the brother/sisterthat they want to be.

And they're reassessing their priorities.

Now, that70% population that was disengaged is coming back to work feeling like they'remissing part of their life.

And, work before had been a distraction from thatreality, that people weren't living in alignment with their purposes.

How dowe manage that in a way that you can still either re-engage them or help themto exit in a way that your turnover doesn't skyrocket and that you don't sitthere and have to spend an inordinate amount of time retraining and dealingwith loss in productivity, right? We know that all the turnover costs, costs that are associated with high turnover companies, right.



it's not just the salarychange from hiring somebody new, you also havethe recruitment costs, and the onboarding and training costs.

You havethe loss and productivity cost from going from a highly productive employee to a new employee.

All of those different types, and even the disruption of the other workforce, of seeing somebody either quitor seeing them fired.

I mean we.



I'll say, for us, we just had a belovedmember of our staff to decide to go to law school and so her last day was onFriday.

And, we had a rough meeting today because we're all just sad and you can see all of us say, “oh it's because of this other thing, ” or “we just had aweird conversation with a client.

” But, you could tell we're mourning the lossof this person that we love, so it's positive.


And, that's in the best-case scenario.


There is.



William Bridges in his book “Transition Management” talked about the fact that in any transition there are three stages.

And, grieving is one ofthe stages, where you have to go through the grieving of the loss of what was inthe past, before you can get prepared for what the future is gonna look like.

Now, add to the pandemic that type of loss on a massive scale in a company and you cansee the danger, right, in not learning how to re-engage your employees and how toinclude them into what's going on and how to actually help them understandhow to solve these problems, right? Well, and.



Oh, go ahead.



well when you take justthe 70% statistic, initially, that's how much energy is not being put into all ofour workforce already.

Exactly, exactly.

And, then now, people are in fear, people are afraid to lose their jobs but they're also seeing, how like what you're saying, how much their jobs are impacting their family lives and how much their.



I mean, a lot ofpeople are still behind on bills.

They weren't getting.



some people were gettingunemployment but there are still people that are hurtingeconomically in this time period.

So, in looking at that, the big thing that I would recommend for employers is to understand that your ability to engage youremployees is more powerful than ever before, now.

And, if you have adeficiency in understanding how to do that, now isthe best time to start figuring that out.

There is going to come a reckoning, whenthe economy opens back up fully, that those who are prepared and those whohave put in place the appropriate systems are going to be able to weatherthe storm and those who aren't are gonna see it's gonna be a seismic shift in theway that things work.

It's so true I think and I think that I have talked tobusiness owners who, right now, are like “I'm just gonna wait until the crisis isover.

I'm just gonna put things off until we weather this crisis.



” Like, what do yousay to people who are feeling like that? The biggest thing you know people talkabout, luck is where preparation and opportunity meet, right? The biggest ideaof waiting is there are three different reasons why we procrastinate, right? Weprocrastinate, one: because we're afraid of failing.

And, a lot of people realizethat they don't know how to deal with this so they're afraid, so they just putit off.

There's another group of people, that I don't think applies as much tothis, which are the people that are afraid of success.

What does it look likeif we're good at this? How does it change everything? Then, there's a smaller group ofpeople that are having to deal with that, right, because that's the fear of theunknown.

Even if everything works, we don't know what it lookslike.

I think that does apply because some people are having survivor's guilt, right now, about their companies being successful, right? Exactly, exactly.

Like, what does that mean? Exactly.

And, so there's that procrastination, which says I'm just gonna pump the brakes and not do anything becauseat least that leaves me with the status quo.

And then, you have what I think a lotof the people that you're talking about right now are dealing with as well isthe procrastination based on overwhelm.

The problem just seems so big that youdon't know where to start.

And, the key to overcoming procrastination is differentfor each of those different stimuli, right.

If you're afraid of failure, it takes a paradigm shift, it takes understanding that any great success isbuilt off of the stair steps, the building blocks of failures.

It's aniterative process.

Everything you did in your business, everything I've done in mybusiness, has been an iterative process.

You trysomething, you get results, you adjust.

You try again, you get results, you adjust.

And, over time, we figure it out.

And, oftentimes, what happens is oncewe get to a certain level of success.



this is what I deal with with mybusiness owner clients all the time.



they get to a certain level of successand they have to start over at the leadership, becoming an empowering leader part, because what they got really good at was being a professional.

They gotreally good at performing and now when you become an empowering leader, and this is what we talked about with the second point as well.



learning how to engageyour workplace has nothing to do with how good you are at your job, it has todo with how good you are at engaging other people.

It has to do with how goodyou are at seeing what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are, where arethe obstacles that are in their way, and how you can address those obstacles in away that before they get to them you've dealt with them so that they can run atfull speed? If they're constantly slowing down so they can move chairs out of theway, they can't run.

It's so true and I kind of think that there's no timethat's too early to start solving these problems.

Because I see, in my workplace, with my staff, so I will.



I feel like there's the boss part of usand there's the employee part of us, and I see myself when I'm executing run intothe same problems that my staff does because the boss part of me has notplanned ahead for this safe space to just execute.

And that's so beautifulthough, that point that you make, and that fact that we can empathize with theemployee part of them.

And here's the key: our goal is to grow the boss part ofthem because the better they are at removing those obstacles from their wayearlier, the less obstacles we have to move, right? But it's a process, right.

And, I talk to lots of leaders about, the leadership journey is a kind ofthree step process.

You go from being a follower, to leading yourself, right? And, this is what most people think of.



Stephen Covey talked about it as goingfrom being dependent to independent.



and that's where most people stop.

That'swhere most people are like “I'm grown, I got it.

I'm a professional.

I'm salaried.

I'm certified.

I am good at my job.



” and that's where they stop.

And then, they getthrust into leadership, which is the next level–you learn how you have tobecome a leader of others.

A lot of people are thrust into leadership ormove into leadership, not because they have actually studied, trained, and wantto have this position.

But, because it's the natural progression along theirprofessional career, right? When you get to that space you are literally startingover from square one, even though you have seen leaders and you know whatleaders do.

This is the dirty secret that most people don't understand.

It's not an information gap that's the problem, it's a behavior.

I don'tteach people a lot about leadership most of the time when I go into companies.

Ican go into any company and the first thing that I do is we get on thewhiteboard and I say “okay, what are the traits of a good leader? What does a goodleader do?” And they can give me all of the things: coaching, training, discussions, communicates well, has an open-door policy, is always looking to better theteam, all these different types of things.

The qualities come from the people thatI'm coaching.

It's never the problem that they don't know what good leadershiplooks like.

The issue is they don't know what are the obstacles that arekeeping them from doing what good leaders do.

And, more importantly, theydon't know how to overcome them.

So, generally, when we do that exercise I getthem to give me the list of leadership ideas and then I have them describe whattheir day looks like.

You know what their day always looks? Like meetings, emails, phone calls, firefighting–putting out problems, solving problems for otherpeople, interruptions, right? All of these things are the things that keep themfrom doing it and that's what so many people struggle with understanding; howto remove those things from your life so that you can then start doing thetraining, and the coaching, and the supporting.

And, that's what most peopledon't have: training.

And I think it's like the key to the universe.



is thatwhatever we're doing right now is the obstacle to creating what we want.

And to just have a look at our assumption that like watching movies on Sunday is normal.


a life of your dream exactly that's right whatever you think isnormal that's the that's the problem the fact that it's normalis your obstacle and for so many people what's normal in being the boss andbeing the leader is telling people what to do and people following what'sinteresting about that and that's the reason why my book is titled what it'stitled telling people to do and hoping they follow leads you to the place whereyou're constantly asking why can't people just do their jobs I told themwhat to do and the question is the answer if you could actually look at itand say why can't people just do this and remove those obstacles then peoplewould be able to just do those jobs and you would have to do a lot less tellingbecause they would see it and they would make it happen and sound right but whatwe feel is that we shouldn't quote unquote have to do that notunderstanding and I'm not the first person said as simon Sinek raves aboutit jack welch said it 30 years ago when you are an employee your job is the taskwhen you are a leader your responsibility and your job is to takecare of the people it's not the task it's not task orientedthe people will take care of the task if you remove the obstacles to them takingcare of the task right which I mean which is legitimately challenging thoughyes right and that is a yeah and that's the thing that we haven't been schooledin right we don't learn these skills in our in our traditional schooling youdon't go to school and learn how to work in teams as a matter of fact working inteams is called cheating in school I I know I taught six years right generallyI was one of those teachers that that did collaborative assignments and didgroup assignments I did all the rest type stuff because I understood what howimportant it was for people to be able to show their cross-disciplinaryexpertise in Michael different facets right I was a Spanish teacher and one ofthe things that I taught my students yes we took tests and we took quizzes and wedid homework but we also did projects we also did things with rubrics where youknew what your grade was before you turned it in because you could grade ityourself right we did things where they had speaking and listening events whereeven if you're not good reading or writing if you can speak and listen youcan get an A on this project on this because what I understood was there arestudents that learn in multiple different ways that if I was gonna getthe best out of all of my students I couldn't just teach in one way and sayif you learned it this way you're good I had to teach in all of the ways and sayif you learn it you're good and what that did is it challenged the studentswho were just reading and writing students to do things that were outsideof their comfort zone to learn how to be creative to learn how to draw or to grabget you know I did collages they had to cut out things from from magazines forthe students that weren't really good at speaking and listening they had to learnhow to do that and I say all that because the third problem that we weretalking about is there are so many businesses that are gonna try to getengagement but they're also dealing with a workforce where they're trying toimprove diversity you know every CEO and every company has a diversity statementand has a declaration about black lives matter and all these types thingsbecause they're trying to do the right thing but one of the other things thatwe have to understand is that we have done a lot with diversity andmulticulturalism in this country over the past thirty years but we haven'tdone a lot with is inclusivity and I've been to like someone was telling methat there's this new concept of fusion like once you get past inclusivity andthat is just normal you have this moment of fusion of totally polarized ideascoming together to create something new and that really use the workforce andthe brains that people are bringing the skills that people are bringing toactually like escalate and becoming exactly right and cuz all that all thescience is up there all that all the studies have shown right I talk aboutthis a lot in my book and that multidisciplinary diverse and inclusiveorganizations it doesn't matter if it's looking at with female managers andfemale leadership if it's looking at african-american and racial and culturaldiversity doesn't matter if it's talking about diversity of thought even whenyou're just looking at a homogeneous group of whites that is politicallydiverse right when they are politically or or racially or ethnically orculturally diverse and inclusive they outperform normal teams by 40 to 50percent right but here's the interesting thing and some of them even by 60 to 70percent I was I saw one thing that said I think it's like as of 2021 those teamsthat the leadership is diverse and inclusive it's gonna be like in theeighties that's the whole thing when the leadership is diverse and inclusive itgoes it's skyrockets because everything permeates when it's just the team thoughand the team is allowed to have some sort of autonomy that's when you getcloser to 60 and 70% and when you just have regular diversity but there's anclimate where everybody feels included then you get to even a 30 40 50 percentbetter now here's the key and this is where so many people struggle there arelots of best practices in management and when you have right and and this is athis is an idea there's a book called unleash that I love and that I recommendto everybody by Francis Frey and one of the things that she talks about in herbook is when you have a homogeneous group where everybody basically has thesame periences best practices actuallyimprove performance against the standard against another just minimum bestpractices everything you've read in good to great everything you've read andbuilt to last and all the different types of business books that you've seenthey improve performance right and here's the issue and this is what a lotof companies probably see if you just add diversity into those best practiceorganizations the actual productivity goes down actual inclusion dropoutinclusion exactly in with a different character exactly because when you'rebringing humans in with a different characteristic and all you're trying todo is get them to assimilate into an already structured system you're onlyallowing them to bring to the system a fraction of who they are and so it looksjust like a Venn diagram right you only get a portion of who they are and so itactually winds up now instead of there being this concentric circle it winds upwith the Venn diagram only the the very end the circle in between is where youget that that elevated productivity but everything that is external to bothgroups you lose it you're basically guaranteeing disengagement if you're notactively like moving towards inclusions exactly and but the beauty of it is ifyou have inclusive practices and inclusive practices like like we use youknow $10 words we're lawyers we do that all the time right but the whole idea ofinclusion is just simply this do I feel comfortable being myself in thisenvironment do I feel like I am heard do I feel like I am listened to do I feellike I am free to express myself without fear of judgment or ostracization rightif I can feel that way then I will show up fully and here's the beauty teamsthat have diversity and inclusion and incorporate those best practices intotheir teams like we said perform up to three times better than just the similarthe homogeneously the homogeneous teams that are run with best practices it isexponential growth it is exponential improvement because you get the synergyof all of the various viewpoints and all of the various life experiencesand this is why in education right the University of Michigan I remember when Iwas at the University of Illinois and undergrad I got to have lunch with oneof the people that was on that initial that 96 um the the case that wentthrough in 96 the study that they did I got to have lunch we got to sit downwith those people one of the things they talked about was diversity and inclusionare such an exponential modifier that it's it's ludicrous not to intentionallytry to it doesn't matter what your demographic is if it's all women if youadd men and make men feel included it's gonna be exponentially better if it'sall black people if you add white people and make them feel included it's gonnabe exponentially better it all of the data shows but the key is inclusion andthat is a skill that we have to learn because we are naturally taught to gotowards the things that are like us too and that's that right that's tribalismaccess evolutionary and that makes sense but here's the problem with it it'sself-limiting if we want to have the workplace of the future if we want to beable to do more with less and have businesses that are able toexponentially outperform our peers here's what the Gallup study showed youan engaged workforce returns a hundred and forty-seven percent better earningsthan a disengaged workforce it's so outstanding I mean I think that it's solike this is sort of the point of like for people who are just feelingoverwhelmed right now and like want to put off doing this work like now isactually the time to make sure that we're not just giving lip service to tothe changes that need to happen right and and the beauty of it is it's notonly the best time because the climate outside almost makes it impossible notto do it but it's also the best time cuz this is the law this is the period oftime where training and learning right getting with people who can create asafe space for you to learn one of the beautiful things and this is what wepride ourselves on in our company right I'm not coming in to show you how smartI am right yes I did my study I make my mama proud right but that'snot why I go into the companies my big thing is this if I go in I know I canfix these things I've led a company of maroon 30 right I've done these thingsI've left where's the winningest Defense Council right like I've done thosethings I've already like my resume is good but that's not why I do what I dothe reason I do what I do is because our company is OK censored around this ideawe first of all help those that we directly coach oh good yeah I thinkwe're good okay we help the people that we directly coach our focus is to helpyou to manifest the greatness that lies within you we believe that every personon this planet has greatness within them that has a gift that needs to be birthedto the universe and we work to help you to manifest that greatness but with ourleaders the biggest thing that we understand is this right the old adageeverybody understands if you give a person a fish you feed him for a day ifyou teach a person a fish you feed him for a lifetime sounds great right andthat and that's the step and don't get me wrong that's where we try to getpeople to that's the next step but that's not the top because here's thedeal it's still right if you want to feed the whole world if you want to makea tremendous impact if you want to do a lot of things you got to teach a lot ofpeople how to fish that's time consuming and that's the whole thing it's not justteaching people what you know it's not just helping people to manifest theirgreatness that's not where the power is it where the legacy leadership componentof it comes from is this if you can teach a person to teach a person to fishyou can feed the whole world even after you're goneright it's so true and that's the key with leadership on which when we'rehelping people to manifest their greatness we're not just teaching youhow to do it for yourself so that you need us all the time what wedo is then we teach you how to teach people how to do it how to createleadership structures that make it impossible for people to workin your organization and not learn how to manifest their greatness not feelincluded not feel like they are part of the team because that becomes yourculture and when it's part of your culture just like in the Marine Corpsthe Marine Corps does not get smarter or better applicants than the otherservices in the military but consistently the Marine Corps turns outbetter results is that yeah right why is that it's because there's a culture ofexcellence in the Marine Corps that is cultivated from the minute you say Iwant to be a marine before you ever get to boot camp or Officer Candidate Schoolyou are inculcated into a culture that says good is not good enough you will doyour best and you will hold people accountable to doing their best honorcourage and commitment are are F qualities Semper Fidelis always faithfulis our motto these types of things get into you before you ever become a Marineknow that that's just expectation it's just who you are and exactly and theculture is that everybody holds each other accountable to that if you see amarine whose uniform looks jacked up you don't just walk by and not say anythingthen you're not doing your job as a Marine and you're not gonna go and youknow berate him but you are gonna make sure that he or she knows that they arenot upholding what it means to be a Marine and this thing that we have onour chest the fact that we say that we're marie's means something and you'renot allowed to act like it doesn't right right so interesting I think that'sthat's so important the other thing that I want to make sure that we don't missin this conversation is that one of the one of the reasons that I really wantedto highlight your company is that I think in or get a lot of people whofollow me are in Oregon and in Oregon we are just a vastly homogenous white groupof businesses and I resolved a couple of race discrimination cases last weekwhere the employee what are the employees had said to his we had maderace discrimination claims and they brought in a facilitator who was a whitewoman and he said you can't understand what my life islike in Oregon as a person of color because you're white and she said oh yesI can I can totally understand because I speak Spanish and I've worked withrefugees in the past and this was super invalidating to him but I think whenwe're in Oregon a lot of times our options because we're so white are towork with white people who are working on diversity issues me being one of themand I think it is super crucial to follow leaders who are people of colorfollowed black leaders while we're doing this work on racism like our society andso I want people to know that not every black leader wants to work withcompanies on these it's a very interesting scenario right and and partof it is there are certain people who are who are suited to this work rightthere's a certain level of tolerance there's a certain level of patiencethere's a certain level of understanding there's certain level empathy that'snecessary to do this work and right because if taking that situation becausewe talked about that kind of before we got on right yeah when he said you can'tunderstand what I'm feeling like because you're a white that is not a truestatement although it is his feeling just the fact that she is white does notmean that she cannot understand because there's a number of white scenarios thatI can give you where you can have the exact same experience as a black persongrowing up in America right now it's difficult there needs to be a wholebunch of extra factors that you add onto there right but nonetheless a whiteperson growing up in South Africa after apartheid ended might be able tounderstand some of the things that people are understanding in America Ithink it's not important that like it's that's the key it's not an importantit's not an important thing and to his point if he's explaining that you can'tunderstand what I'm feeling the way to deal with that is not to negate hisstatement you can't understand what I'm feeling right like you don't win byarguing oh yes I can you win by showing empathy you win byshowing and demonstrating that you may notunderstand it completely but nonetheless I can do what's necessary to make youfeel safe because that is your role if you are being an ally I am a male whohas grown up never worrying about what I wear or what if I get drunk at a partywhat's gonna happen to me or any of those different things that so many ofmy female students had to worry about in their lives on a daily basis now here'sthe thing I will not ever fully understand what it is like to be a womanin a male-dominated society but what I am in the place of is someone who hasstudied enough and talked to enough people that I know what to say and howto comfort and how to show empathy brené Brown is one of my favorite favoritefavorite people on the planet and one of the reasons why is because what shetalks about is this icky these icky places where you don't know what to doand it's really uncomfortable and it's weird and having the conversation rightand in her book dare to lead one of the things that she talks about so much asempathy is one of the hardest things to do because empathy forces you did notsolve the problem Hey empathy says I'm going to sit with you here where you arebecause I do understand how you feel and what you don't want is me to solve yourproblem which you wanted me to acknowledge and you want to be supportedyou want to and then you will solve your problem in its due time or you will askfor the help that you need to solve your problem in its new time if I'mempathetic instead of sympathetic if I'm not just feeling sorry for you andtherefore wanting to fix your situation that I can feel better out of discomfortyeah exactly so that I can feel better cuz this discomfort sucks right when I'mempathetic I realize this discomfort sucks and guess what you're stuck in itI can walk away I can separate I can disengage you're stuck with it but beingable to walk with people three exactly and to accompany that if she was trulyunderstanding of what he was dealing with then she would be able to give himthe space that he needs to vent and then she would be able to Shepherd himthrough the grieving process and being able to say are you ready to move on andI just think that because we see so many white leaders right now in validatingthe experience of black people in validating the experience of people ofcolor I think it is really important for businesses to look to black leadershipor answers for this and not try to solve it ourselvesand right like it's important to understand the handicap that you haveright like here's the here's the interesting thing and this is what's sodifficult right because people are well-meaning it's not like people aretrying to we're trying to if you're trying to solve it yourself you'retrying to solve the problem you're trying to help it's not like you'restanding on the sidelines like you know gaslighting people not it's not reallythat's not what happens here we're good people here there's no racism anymoreright like all those it's like we had a black president all those differenttypes of things that that the gas lighting crews are doing that's notwhat's happening there are people that are actually trying to solve the problembut here's the deal and I saw a post-it they did really you know stuck out to meI talked to you a little bit about this before the steps to mastery right we gofrom being completely oblivious not knowing what we don't know and the nextstep which is the step that makes so many people afraid to go forward isincompetency we just get to the point where we're aware of all of the stuffthat we don't know we still can't do anything about it but we're aware nowand that's a traumatic experience for a lot of peopleI was just on Facebook with a guy yesterday who was who was kind of and hewas white but he was talking about how frustrated and upset he was with thefact that there's so many white people that can't see it and I was telling himjust like I tell a lot of my black friends one of the things that we haveto understand while I appreciate the fact that everybody that's woke now iswoke and sees it but part of the rage and the anger is a lack of empathy aswell now there's a there's a there's an argument to be made that there arecertain people that shouldn't quote-unquote have to be empatheticwe've been dealing with this too long and I'm upset and I'm angry understandthat those people are in the anger stage of grief right like I get it but weunderstand that there are stages of grief and there's a point where you haveto accept what the reality is and the reality is that in our country we havebeen ignoring race problems for the majority of ourhistory just like we've been ignoring misogyny and and and gender problems forthe majority of our history like let it not be lost on us that we had to have anamendment after the 13th amendment which gave and the 14th and 15th amendmentswhich gave right this rights to men who had been slaves to vote we had to thenhave another amendment to give women the right to vote yeah that's and that wasin the 19th I mean 1/8 the 20th century that was 191919 or 1920 I can't remember it's the 19th 20th amendment is 19 night I alwaysflip them I know it's 19 and 20 just which one is which but at the end of theday that was 1920 before women had the right to vote in this country and for along time we act as if our progress negates the trauma and the sufferingthat are regressive past inflicted well when I think that we see this with everyjustice issue and civil rights issue that comes up where we're mistakingseeing the problem as a danger instead of seeing the problem as a danger and Ithink it's easy to do because it is terrifying when we come in contact withour own complicity in the problem exactly it's an identity crisis yeah andI think that we have to be willing to be there and move through it and have it beI mean I was dealing with this last week I was thinking if the result I want inlife is to eliminate police brutality like I just want that to not be a topicthat exists in our society anymore the thing I need to do is show up a lot andbe wrong and let people tell me that I'm wrong and I need to feel uncomfortableand say I'm gonna do this wrong yes and it's not supposed to be fun and no rightbut that's where the growth happens that's where the learning happens that'swhere we all get better because the key thing about it is just like I don'texpect that white people know what it's likebe a black man in America I don't really know what it's like to be a white man inAmerica we've studied white people a lot longer than white people to study blackpeople this is true but nonetheless I've also never been white and it's just notour job to know everyone's experience but I think that our experiences andlistening to people who have different experiences is what pulls us throughthis and gets us to the other side of getting exactly because when you seek tounderstand right a lot of people say it's not understandable Ithere's just no reason for this it's a conclusion it's not a step but it's astatement that's masking the reality which is I don't understand how someonecould do that yeah and that space of not understandingwe make it a moral judgment of not being understandable or not justifiablewhatever the case may be and we do that to save ourselves from the shame and theguilt of not being able to understand it because if we were able to understand itthen we would be able to fix it but since we can't fix it we must make itunfixable because otherwise we have work to do we can't displace our anger at theother and that and so for me when I work with companies when we talk aboutdiversity and inclusion we talk about leadership we talk about all thesethings right my book why can't people just do their jobsit's tongue-in-cheek the reason people can't just do their jobs is because weas leaders aren't doing our jobs as leaders yeah and if we did our jobs asleaders people are amazing at doing their jobs they actually are way betterat doing their jobs than you are even though what most leaders find is thatthey're doing the majority of their people's jobs that's the problem but wegotta figure out we help our clients to figure out how to overcome that problemand how to then move to the place where their people are solving the problemsthemselves and they're creating more leaders and now when they leave whentheir legacy is it is concluded what winds up happening is that they areactually better than they were when they were there it is a testament to yourleadership that your company improves when you leave when you're on vacationwhen I was a teacher I used to love the fact that my class actually ran betterwhen I wasn't there than when I was because you've already set things up torun without you I think that's amazing so um and and I also think like what inmy business we work with people who are in the crate the employees who are inthe crisis after there's already a collapse and the leadership in a meetingwhat you do is such great preventive work to make sure people never have tocome to my command to everyone so what's the easiest way for people to work toreach out to you is it joining the Facebook group aside how can people work with you right sofor those individuals that are looking to learn how to thrive in this chaos ofthe new normal and figure out how to live the life that you're supposed tolive to understand how to interruption proof your life how to exponentiallyimprove your productivity I have a group on Facebook it's called a thrive tribeit's a free group I do live trainings there and I also have a masterclass thatyou can get access to through that through that that space I also forbusiness owners for business leaders people who are learning wanting to makethat next step to becoming the leader that you know you supposed to be tobeing able to get the best out of your people I want you to go to my websiteit's WWE legacy leadership mastery com and on that website you can go ahead andyou can get a copy of my book for free you can download it the e copy for freeand you can also set up a time to book a strategy session session with me wherewe can sit down and talk about what are the specific needs of your organizationand what we can do to help okay so legacy leadership mastery yesand because we're going from not knowing to mastery yes awesome I love it one soexcited you talked to me today and about everything that you're doingeveryone joined his group and go sign up for the class hi Robert oh and you cango ahead and give them my email if you want they can read yeah well tell usyour email so my email is simple if you got the legacy leadership mastery compart right you just put Robert in front of it and you got Robert at legacyleadership mastery comm I am will get in touch yeah so if there's no if there's aproblem that people are having in the workplace that is sort of not somethingthey want to publicly deal with or share that's probably the best exactly eitherthat I wanted a strategy session both of those will get to me and I just want tomake sure that specially for your group if they have something pressing rightnow that they need to deal with like just email me all right I can get youthrough and we can set up everything and I'll get you a calendar link if you wanta peruse and like I said if you want to get a free copy of the book you can alsoset up a strategy session with me feel free to go to the website and you knowhave fun there's lots of cool stuff on there awesome well thank you so much.

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